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Posted By:MarkMatthew on: 6/14/2006 3:35:20 PM


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MarkMatthew
Posts: 3

Need Advice From Stylists / Barbers
Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:35:20 PM
Hello all. I am new to this board. But, I believe I am posting in the right place as I am searching for some advice from salon professionals:

I am opening an upscale men's salon/grooming club and we are hosting a big job competition in early August. The competition will take a full 24-hours and 72 hair stylists and 36 nail technicians will compete to be one of nine hires, by servicing 288 men (each stylist works on 4 men each nail tech on 8).

Now, the advice I need... Where can I go to find barbers, cosmetologist, and nail techs who would be interested in competing?

I am located in Los Angeles and you can learn about the competition by googling "Mark Matthew" - the salon's name.

Any feedback or guidance you provide will be helpful.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 11:08:26 PM

Hello all. I am new to this board. But, I believe I am posting in the right place as I am searching for some advice from salon professionals:

I am opening an upscale men's salon/grooming club and we are hosting a big job competition in early August. The competition will take a full 24-hours and more than a hundred hair stylists and nail technicians will compete to be one of nine hires, by servicing 288 men (each stylist works on 4 men).

Now, the advice I need... Where can I go to find barbers, cosmetologist, and nail techs who would be interested in competing?

Here we go again...Another 'BIG' deal, another 'upscale' idea for more than a hundred hairstylists...only problem is that he doesn't have any clue where to get them from...Jeez, when will people learn that it's not a matter of 'if you build it, they will come'...

Mark old fellow, don't you suppose that if we knew the answer to your question that we would all have a big-deal salon with hundreds of applicants? If it were that easy any fool could do it. Problem is, it isn't.

 Plus, if we had any idea where to get staff, we would hardly share that information with the competition...

Would you?

I don't really get the math either, isn't 100 stylists doing 4 men each, 400? Where does the 288 figure come from?

What exactly are these competitors competing for? If it's simply the chance to work in a new, untested salon with no history behind it then why would anyone bother?

Any feedback or guidance you provide will be helpful

OK, here's some...Are you offering a guaranteed hourly/weekly/annual salary?

Just commission won't do it I'm afraid, nobody wants to take a chance on going home with empty pockets. Are you offering benefits? You know, health insurance, dental and vision insurance...how about 401K matching contribution retirement plans, paid vacations, child-care, paid continuing education, bonus plans, and a clear career-path with defined financial raises assured?

I looked at the web site but saw no mention of anything to do with what every salon worker has the minimum right to expect from an employer. 

I am located in Los Angeles and you can learn about the competition by googling "Mark Matthew" - the salon's name.

 Good luck with it, seems that you haven't much idea about the current state of the labor market in California today. Please let us know how it's going?




MarkMatthew
Posts: 3

Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:55:25 AM
Britboy, you may have been on the board for a while, but you have made quite a number of judgement calls with the very little amount of information. Some of the #s in the original post were estimates, I've updated it to make the math easier. I obviously can't post all the information about the competition in a posting, that's why I recommended visiting the site.

To address your question:

Hired employees will earn high commissions with scheduled periodic rate increases; health insurance and retirement after one year of consistent work; $100 monthly gas stipend, Free lunches a few times a week; $100 to take a day off each month; Free marketing materials including business cards and employee webpages; and a few other things. Everything I have wanted from employers I want to offer to our employees, because most importantly our employees are our backbone.

However, you are right and THANK YOU, we should add more information about working at MM to our website.

As for the competition, participating stylists and nail technicians will also earn tips while they compete to help them make up for their time. The tips are how the volunteers will rate their stylist/nail tech (again visit the website to learn more about this in detail).

We launched the competition a couple of days ago and we are grateful to have already signed up 11 salon professionals. Although there is close to two months for the competition, I just wanted to know from this board if you guys had any thoughts or ideas of where I should be promoting this; as I may have not thought of some yet.

vallygrrl
Posts: 1280
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2006 8:15:53 PM
I think the competition sounds like a cool idea.  I think it sounds slightly odd to be honest.  Almost like more work than you would need to go into.  Why don't you hire assistants instead.
I personally feel like beauty schools are a good place to put notices up for your competition, but they won't be experianced.  That's the only problem I see, you want people who are already experianced and I feel that they may find a competition cheezy or be too busy to be in one, whereas a competition might appeal to newer members of the industry. So my suggestion would be local beauty schools, the paper, cable access.
Umm, if you don't mind saying, how exactly are you doing this, are you going to have judges, what will you do if they argue that they should have won, are you hiring people on the spot, will you do more after the competition (I could see someone shining in a competitive forum, but being a bad hire, also someone who is a great competitor may not be a great team player, if you get my drift)
Also 24 hours seems like a long time, I don't see how a busy professional who even is unsatisfied with his/her current posistion would have time to engage in this.  Also you may run into issues with kids, family, etcetera.  If I were you I would mainly be targeting cosmetology students, they would really dig something like this I feel.
Good luck, it's certainly a creative idea.


britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, June 16, 2006 2:18:13 AM


This whole 'competition' post is a violation of the board rules, it is a recruitment ploy, disguised as a plea for ideas. This should not be on this area of the board but rather in the employment section as a paid advertisment.

 

***Britboy...........it is not up to you to decide what is a violation of the board rules.  If for some reason you are concerned with what is going on in regards to the rules being violated - please contact a moderator as per the rules, do not post it here on a thread.  Thank you for your cooperation..

Cindy Farr Hester  Asst Moderator



MarkMatthew
Posts: 3

Posted: Friday, June 16, 2006 3:08:48 AM
VallyGrrl thank you very much for your ideas they are truely points to think about and carry out. Something to note here is that competitors will not compete for the whole 24 hours. Each competitor will compete for two hours, but the whole competition takes a full 24 hours. The purpose of the competition is to hire employees that clients (all men's salon) would like to get work done by. The judges will be the volunteers who will rate competitors by their tip. At the end of the competition the top 20 earners become finalists. It is from the finalist pool that we will go through with the regular hiring proces. VallyGrrl I hope this addresses your questions...

Britboy you are still overly critical with not enough information with which to be so. It's not right to call anything we are doing a scam or to label our registered competitors suckers.

I don't know why you see a good thing and call it a scam... what is so bad about offering monthly paid days off, gas stipends, business cards, webpages, gift cards, a strong commission, benefits, and a few sources of income?????

You can definitely bet that I will not be going in to detail with what company will offer what benefits to our employees... That will be discussed with potential employees only. If you would like to learn ALL the details about the competition please go back to our website.

As far as compensation for our employees, please rest assured that they will be well taken care of, without them we won't have a business.

ValleyGrrl thanks again for your comments and if you have any additional thoughts please post them as feedback and suggestions is the reason I posted here. Britboy some of your thoughts have, in their own way, been thought provoking. So thank you too.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, June 16, 2006 7:32:15 AM

The judges will be the volunteers who will rate competitors by their tip. At the end of the competition the top 20 earners become finalists.

This is ridiculous as a measure of anything. We all know that firstly, men are notoriously bad tippers, and secondly, that cuter girls get bigger tips, because men want to show-off and try to impress them, it seems that you might not only be a bad judge of recruitment, but also of human nature. If you don't base the winners on skills, you won't stay in business long after you have hired them.

Britboy you are still overly critical with not enough information with which to be so.

Then by all means be open about my inquiries and perhaps I'll be less so, but until I have some real hard facts it's hard not to be suspicious.

You can definitely bet that I will not be going in to detail with what company will offer what benefits to our employees... That will be discussed with potential employees only.

There's another red-flag... Any legitimate employer would have a recruitment package prepared for any and all interviewees to review, before asking them to perform licensed services, containing all the information regarding Benefits...  If you won't even give the name of the Health Insurance company with which you will supply, and the interviewee, and later the employee will enjoy the benefits of, then you must have something to hide. I'm not asking for complete details, but even that wouldn't be unreasonable if I did,  but simply asking which company will provide the coverage is a completely reasonable question for any reasonable person to ask. 

As an example if you went to JC Penney and applied for a salon position, they would happily supply you with the Benefits package supplier's name at the first interview, not suggest that you wait until you are hired or short-listed before giving it out.

So of course would Microsoft, GM, Verizon...You are no different, you are a business offering work with Benefits, what is your reluctance about this, It seems fundamental to me.

If you would like to learn ALL the details about the competition please go back to our website.

I really have little interest in this competition, my interest is more focused on the recruitment-scam aspect of it. It's curious that licensed tradespersons should be made to jump through hoops like circus animals, without getting paid to do so. I'm not even sure if this 'competition' is legal.

This 'offer' reminds me of similar scams where salon owners have a "raffle', or 'auction' to sell a salon, where they 'sell' chances to win it for $100.00 and see how many people bite. Of course they always set a 'reserve-price' so that their rears are covered and if it isn't met they lose nothing. We've seen this done over the years, it's just more of the same thing as this 'competition', all hype with no risk to the person making the offer.




gd
Posts: 809
Gold Member

Posted: Friday, June 16, 2006 3:22:24 PM
Again we have a business person come on the board attempting to discuss a business idea and being attacked and slandered by Brit, even suggesting that having a stylist audition to prove their skills and compete for a salon postion is somehow illegal. Since most companies have different salary and benefit packages depending on the position you are being hired for, I know of no business that would give out a complete salary and benefit package to anyone simply walking in the door and to apply for a job or on a first interview, unless that person was being recruited and being offered a position with the company. How long are attacks like this by Brit going to be allowed.


britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:09:56 PM

Probably as long as your attacks on me?

Since most companies have different salary and benefit packages depending on the position you are being hired for, I know of no business that would give out a complete salary and benefit package to anyone simply walking in the door and to apply for a job or on a first interview,

I know many that would and do, why the secrecy? If a business really wants to attract top talent then why not lay out the deal, what's the secret?

Besides they are not 'just walking in the door', they have been recruited by the promise of possible employment.

I didn't ask for a complete benefits and salary package information, but it would be as well if I had, that's what I would want to know before I spent time 'competing', after all, what am I competing for?

 I simply asked WHICH Benefits company would be providing the coverage...It's a perfectly ligitimate question to ask a potential employer who is going to provide the Benefits. Is it Blue Cross? Is it Kaiser? Is it Blue Shield, or is it some unknown company which may or may not be able to pay up when the need arises.

Additionally gd, here's the response from the poster who you suggest I 'slandered'...................................

Britboy some of your thoughts have, in their own way, been thought provoking. So thank you too.

It seems that this poster finds no problem with my ideas, indeed he thanks me for them, the question is therefore...why should you?

I think that you have a personal axe to grind with me and you thought this would be a good time to try it?




vallygrrl
Posts: 1280
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:16:21 PM
Well I'm glad that I could be of some help.  I am more comfortable for you now that you explained some things, such as them competing for only two hours.  The tip thing sounds like it may be difficult to determine, I could be misunderstanding,but it seems like it could get confusing? As far as hiring people men would like to have work on them, I suppose you mean cute girls, and I suppose that's not a negative thing for you to hire cute girls, as a woman I'm not as offended by that as I perhaps should be, however as a woman I can give you some potential problems. A salon full of girls, especially girls that have won a competition because a group of men gave them large tips, could be slightly catty with each other.  People, not girls or guys who are good competitors are not always good employees, or team players, I'm slightly afraid that you may give them a little too much confidence in this manner of picking people.  Britboy is right that you should base on talent, but not only talent, because I think that can be taught, but also ethics.  Because someone can be cute and charming for a two hour period does not mean that they will show up to work on time, have good attendance, be honest about how much products they use, clean up after themselves, etcetera.  Also not to be sexist or anything but I wish you had some women on your panel. Um, as a man you are probaly at times better able to tell a mans character than a woman would be able to.  Kind of like if you were to meet a guy- you would be like "Oh I've seen this type at the bar, he's all show."  Women are the same way with other women.  I have seen this in personal and professional situations.  I can really tell usually what kind of person someone is, and I think that if you had some women on your panel they could maybe bring some wisdom to your choices.  Just my oppinion. 
Also as a woman and someone who is in this trade I could slightly see your competition deteriorating into something that is kind of cheezy or showy.  I picture all these young twenty something girls in hot outfits, all outdoing themselves to be cute, and volunteers which are frat boy age or middle aged men drooling over them.  Do you have any dress requirements for the competition, such as wear what you would wear to a professional interview?  Just some questions I have, I hope I'm not being rude or intrusive.  I think you do have an interesting idea, and I do hope it goes well for you.
I would be interested in going to your website but I do not see it listed on here or on your profile?
 


hues4you
Posts: 2566
Platinum Member

Britboy
Posted: Saturday, June 17, 2006 12:00:55 PM

Dear Britboy-

You are being issued an online warning for the LAST time.  The reason that follow per boards rules is as follows:

Hate posts and personal attacks will not be tolerated on the BTC Boards. Treat others on these message boards as you would expect them to treat you. Talking trash about another user or posting topics specifically to provoke a negative response from an individual, a group or an entire community is not acceptable on the BTC Boards. These posts will be deleted and may result in having the privilege of posting on the boards revoked

The part I want you to pay attention to is not the whole paragraph - it is the personal attacks, talking trash, posting topics specifically to provoke a negative rsponse from and individual, a group or an entire community is NOT acceptable on the BTC boards.

Your priveledge of posting is on the line.  Do not respond to this message here.  Email me directly at hues4you@midsouth.rr.com

I would like to encourage all to please remain on topic, I am always available for contact at the above email address if you have any concerns or comments.  The BTC Talk Back boards in not the place to do so.  Thank you so much.

Cindy Farr Hester  Asst Moderator



mcoupland
Posts: 793
Gold Member

styling & barbering
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:48:19 AM
Mark,
I am interested i an update with how your doing.
I currenly work on both sides of the inbdustry, 4 days barbering, ( great regular steady income!) and 2 days at a salon BR, relocated and still bulding. Would love to answer any guestions you have.

Michelle


Don't sweat the small stuff.