Discussion Board:
Bulletin Boards > Cut and Style > Thinning Shears
Posted By:
Posted By:GeorgiaStylist on: 4/27/2006 10:38:07 PM


Display:
Author: Thread: Thinning Shears
GeorgiaStylist
Posts: 4

Thinning Shears
Posted: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:38:07 PM

I need a pair of thinning shears. I really only have two requirements. They need to be short, short, short and light. My instructor in BS had a great pair that she picked up at a hair show and I have looked every where for a similar pair. I cut with Centrix c2 5.25. I am not looking to invest and insane amount of money as this is not a tool I use often.

 

Any suggestions?



mina2
Posts: 432
Silver Member

Posted: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:48:53 PM
BW Boyd Shears has the best one ever and it's less than $200.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:06:26 AM
Thinning shears are better if they are longer, they are a barber tool and think how barber's use them...they pick up the sections with the shear and the comb, not with the fingers, that's why longer are better. Try the 4420 shear from the barber supply stores, it's the one Barbers have used for 50 years, it's about $75.00 and it's great.


Sophiea
Posts: 136
Bronze Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:02:55 AM
For me...all sheers are better if they are longer.  Once you get use to them, a longer sheer is faster and way easier on the hand and wrist.  JMO
Cheer's, Sophiea

whynotdye
Posts: 28

Britboy....
Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:40:31 AM
   I don't know of any barber supply store's in my area.  Do you suppose I could find those online somewhere? I, too, have been looking for a pair of thinning shears to replace my old cheapy one's.  Thanks for the tip:)

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:28:23 AM
yes


britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:42:00 AM

A word on shears...Since the 1960's when Vidal pioneered the 'precision cut' hairstylists have been obsessed with using the short shears that he used. This is a concept which has long passed it's sell-by date. Consider that we have come through the choppy Billy Idol look, the slithered-ends looks, the shattered interiors, to the age of the razor cut (which is rapidly fading, but that'sanother story) and hairstylists are STILL such in the short-shears mode...It's ridiculous, and another example of monkey-see, monkey-do. It's time to free up your minds and try to move past the tool of 45 years ago. I laugh to watch hairstylists attempting to do scissor-over-comb cutting with short shears, they create more steps than they know how to fix and it takes forever...This is a Barber technique, go watch a barber cutting...you'll see that he/she uses only long shears, lifts the hair with the closed blades and over-directs the hair upwards to avoid steps, and cuts BIG sections. Hairstylists are so caught up in the expense and design of shears that they have completely ignored the FUNCTION...

You can buy perfectly good shears for under $100.00, I believe that beauty school students who buy $250.00 shears are like student-drivers who drive Porsches, it's just foolishness. Remember that Vidal sassoon became the most famous haircutter in the world using scissors (that's what they were called then) that cost $20.00

I first brought up this topioc here a few years ago and have since had a number of e-mails from hairstylists who changed their minds and their tools and are thrilled. Hairstyling is supposed to be about the new isn't it? Time for some new thinking regarding shears.






mina2
Posts: 432
Silver Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 5:52:22 PM
What are goos shears?





 Goose  Scissors

GeorgiaStylist
Posts: 4

My short shears, my decision
Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:11:18 PM

well since I am the one using the short shears, and I am the one that started this thread... I am gonna reply to that attack...

 

I am about to graduate BS, I also apprentice. I started using a pair of short shears as a complete fluke...  fell inlove. I dont cut with them because of a monkey see monkey do, I cut with them because I LIKE THEM, and they work for me dot period

 



Sophiea
Posts: 136
Bronze Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:36:19 PM

He means.."monkey see monkey do for the whole industry GeorgiaStylist...not just you.  Most of us started with short sheers in beauty school ...and yes, we all LOVED THEM.  What Brit is trying to share is experience, you can read him wrong and take it personally or you can take the posts for what they are and learn something.

Maybe after cutting hair for 10 years and your Dr tells you you have tendenitis or carple tunnel you will remember this conversation and try a pair of longer sheers.  It is one of the best things I ever did.  Anyway...not an attack just a little heads up.


Cheer's, Sophiea

CopaGirl
Posts: 210
Bronze Member

Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:49:51 PM
GeorgiaStylist- I love my short shears!! I have been using 4 1/2 inch shears for over 20 years, they are like an extension on my hand. If I try anything longer or bulkier, they feel really clunky in my hands.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:13:39 AM

My short shears, my decision
Posted: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:11:18 PM

well since I am the one using the short shears, and I am the one that started this thread... I am gonna reply to that attack...

There was no 'attack' ...calm down and learn something here, it was simply a suggestion, you are proving my thesis that there are a lot of closed minds out there, by taking offence to a simple idea.

 I am about to graduate BS, I also apprentice.

Which means that you really have very little experience or knowledge of what is available, correct?

I started using a pair of short shears as a complete fluke...  fell inlove.

There will probably be many loves in your life, perhaps you might take a moment to ask yourself if there could be more than one?

any I dont cut with them because of a monkey see monkey do, I cut with them because I LIKE THEM, and they work for me dot period

Ever heard the saying "Don't knock it until you've tried it"? It seems that you have made your mind up about what you love and what works before even considering or exploring any alternatives? This isn't the way to learn, it's the way to stagnate and at your stage of hairstyling development that's a shame (for you).

Don't be so indignant, the post wasn't directed at you , but meant as a general tip to anyone with an open mind to consider.




britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:25:12 AM

Copa girl...I understand what you mean, I used to feel that way about my short scissors too, however, it became obvious that my cuts were becoming limited to what the tool could achieve, not what my creativity could achieve. Of course a different tool will feel strange at first but you'll quickly adjust and find that your cuts will change and new shapes and ideas will flow.

 Perhaps 20 years is long enough with a tool, I'm betting that they actually limit your creativity not enhance it?

How can you cut comb-over-scissor with 4 1/2 inch shears? Well, you can't.

Besides, think about the practicality of the work...If a new client is in your chair who has massively thick, coarse hair, perhaps a Latin hair type or a Northern European type...what's the point in using a tool that's obviously wrong for the job? It's like trying to cut the lawn with a switchblade. Tools should be appropriate to the job at hand, not determined in advance, one size does not fit all in this trade.




statikman1
Posts: 144
Bronze Member

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:41:34 AM
If you've never used 7 inch shears you don't know what you're missing. I was trained by people using 5 inch so I did the same for years. I bought a pair of 7 inch 2 years ago and I haven't used anything since and will buy another pair this weekend. I can't even use a 6 anymore.

Colorz
Posts: 88

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:54:57 AM

I graduated Beauty school ages ago and the school supplied scissors were long, maybe 6 or 6.5. Right after that (actually during, but my school's owner was older and not real trendy) the short shears became all the rage. I've always used both, and actually use both on the same head to this day. I can't tell you how much more work I found shorter shears created when I needed to cover ground and had plenty of area to work in. Because of that I never used my short shears when I had room to work and an abundance of hair. (Yes during those years some thought my longer sheers gangly but they weren't behind my chair in my space while I used them, so I let it go.) I use short shears when hair is thin though, and I use them when holding hair up with my fingers in tight spaces like the nape.  Now if you think about it, supposing you have a client with abundant thick wavy hair. Your doing an all over one length (just for a mental image). With long shears you can follow a curved guide rather far and take larger sections. (You might learn to do that with one stroke.) You have less to match up, and in checking the hair, you might actually find less to correct. The larger sections made it easier to see your guide, made the hair you cut at the same time all the same length with less margin for error. Well, it does for me anyway and I find the additional weight when measured against how many less strokes are needed a good trade off. The longer shears are less work for me when covering ground on thick hair and I am a 5'4" woman with small hands. They may not be for everyone though and I can respect that. I will say that I am glad my long shears aren't being laughed at anymore. Long shears don't eliminate the need for short ones and I've always had some of those to not only use, but help calm the chuckles.

For anyone interested, a while after I got my license I got interested in show dogs as a hobby. Now you want to see some fancy ultra long 9-10 inch shears, take your selves to a dog show and watch the groomers under the grooming tent as they turn a poodle into a giant powder puff or take what looks like Benji and turn him into a cocker spaniel. These show people are very talented when it comes to sculpting hair and making it look like the hair grows that way. It doesn't, it is all blended and completely trimmed and sculpted not only into a cut but to camouflage body faults, they even camouflage how the legs move, if not in a straight line. As a tip for anyone wanting those types of shears some of the better ones are Giebs. In fact I have a 15 year old, long,  (maybe 7-7.5 inch) pair of 46 tooth thinning shears from them that are still my favorites. In dog thiners they cut more hair than other companies counterparts (which needed several cuts to take off the same amount of hair) and blended better. Of course now there are lots of thiners being made for human hair to compare them to.



CopaGirl
Posts: 210
Bronze Member

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 8:44:01 AM
I'm understanding what you all are saying about using new tools, but since I've never used longer shears I'm not getting why they are better, aren't they just longer? I was taught that you only use the first inch of the blade anyway. I can do scissor over comb very well with short ones, what would be the difference if they were longer? How does the size of the shears limit creativity? Maybe I need to try some?? (Sorry Georgia, I know this was supposed to be about thinning shears!)

Nic
Posts: 256
Bronze Member

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:45:59 PM

I agree. If one only utilizes one tool for his or her craft, that's a rather limited experience.

Long shears do serve many purposes. As stylists, we really should be open to any tool or implement that better helps us to do our jobs to the best of our abilities. It not only makes us more well rounded, it helps us to experience all our trade has to offer. 

I am very reluctant to limit myself to any one particular way of doing hair. Whether it's cutting or coloring or styling. This trade is all about keeping up with today's trends. We must do what is necessary to be able to carry that out.  


"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."
Winston Churchill



Colorz
Posts: 88

CopaGirl
Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:24:48 PM
I've seen many take small cuts but I was never taught to only use one inch of the blades. But, when I think about that as being something which should have been taught to me it makes no sense because manufacturers boast about having micro serrated shears so the hair won't slide. If everyone was using only an inch of the cutting surface and my training is from the dark ages (older lady owned the school I went to) sliding wouldn't be a big issue, and manufactures wouldn't be micro serrating. So even though you were taught to only use an inch of the blade surface  many people must be cutting enough distance to make the micro serrated blade hold the hair in place on the blade important. I'm not saying one is wrong and one is right. Heck I was taught to use cigarette ashes to remove color stains from the skin, and I keep some ashes from the fireplace around just in case because they don't smell like tobacco. Wouldn't be my first choice nowadays though.

GeorgiaStylist
Posts: 4

Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:18:30 PM
I was taught with 6.5, my first pair was 6.5. I wasn't trained with my short shears and as a matter a fact my instructer told me that if I continued to use them I would find it hard to go back to a longer shear. I was taught to never cut past my second knuckle.. I dont know how to put this.. but uh.. in my world it wont matter if i am using a 12 inch shear or my 5.25 my second knuckle aint gonna move.

Colorz
Posts: 88

Georgia
Posted: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:46:23 PM
Wow glad to hear I wasn't the only one with longer shears supplied by their beauty school. No, our knuckles aren't going to change but I was never taught the knuckle thing. Maybe it is a good thing the schools focus mainly on passing the boards and sanitation, it seems like schools differ just like salons do and there really isn't a right and a wrong. There must even be a stylist somewhere missing a digit who can still cut hair. I wonder how they would hold the hair and shears. It is an art and whatever your comfortable with works for me. I personally like to try new things all the time though, and I like to understand the physics of why and how things work or not.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 12:11:38 AM

I'm understanding what you all are saying about using new tools, but since I've never used longer shears I'm not getting why they are better, aren't they just longer?

They are better for certain cuts because of the nature of certain heads of hair and the mechanics of cutting those heads of hair.

I was taught that you only use the first inch of the blade anyway.

And you are just going to leave it at that?

I can do scissor over comb very well with short ones,

Have you ever watched a Barber do it? It's a barber technique after all. They stand back from the head, at arm's length and let the shears do the work. I'll bet that you stand quite near the head, shoulders hunched, arms bent? Using short scisors creates too many 'panels' and consequently too many ridges between them which have to be gone over to blend. It's better to cut as much width at one pass as possible, firstly it's quicker but it's also more efficient. 

what would be the difference if they were longer?

See above...

How does the size of the shears limit creativity?

Short scissors make the cutter into an architect, joining the dots or the angles to create a style...Long shears allow the cutter to be a sculptor, standing back to see the shape emerging, not using geometry to get from place to place on the head, it's much more free-form. many hairstylists mistakenly believe that they are sculptors, when in reality they are architects. There's far less art in architecture than in sculpture...which are you?

Maybe I need to try some??

Now you're using your head.

 Get some 7" and have some fun, I guarantee it will free your styles up immensely.




mina2
Posts: 432
Silver Member

Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:09:50 AM
I am definitely a sculptor.  Altough I am guilty of going back and making sure the hair is even in a geometric sort of way.  I don't like pieces that get missed or are out of place and are obvious to anyone even if it's just me that sees it.

habib
Posts: 427
Silver Member

Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:30:45 AM
ditto mina.

CopaGirl
Posts: 210
Bronze Member

Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 11:03:18 AM
Thanks Britboy for the great info! I can see now that I am an architect (and a perfectionist)! I am going to give them a try.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 5:19:27 PM

You are going to love it, I think that unless you are doing an absolutely precise geometric cut, (which I don't really offer, except to young girls who have never had one, but not for anyone middle-aged as it just makes them look like old-fashioned, tired, soccer moms) you don't need short scissors. As for the anal retentive need to clean up every stray hair and 'finish' every cut, that's architecture, and it's really boring. I don't know how you have all coped with the razor trend unless you have given up some of that need to 'perfect' every cut, it's the lack of precision that's attractive today. The idea that something is 'out of place' is just what I'm talking about...Can you free yourselves up enough to allow things to be un-perfect? That's modern styling, although look out because I think that blunter looks are coming back some because most people are tired of the choppiness, although 'Precision' cutting is not what I mean. I think there will be lots of quickly-cut bluntish looks, done with the razor, I've been doing them for a while anf the clients love it.

'Precision cuts' is what every $10.00 haircut place says that they offer, it's tired.

Forget the days of taking an hour to do a cut, the clients have had that and they are so over it, my clients marvel that i'm done in 10 minutes or less, as long as they love the results they are happy that it's done. Give up that old-fashioned idea that they  want you to spend all day cutting their hair, they don't, that's so 20th century.




CopaGirl
Posts: 210
Bronze Member

Posted: Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:07:46 PM
Gee, how did you guess that I take an hour for a cut? LOL! Yes, I do razor cutting and I do love it, it's fun and quicker!! Thanks for opening my eyes...

AMirage
Posts: 402
Silver Member

Posted: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 5:03:26 PM

I use 5 inch shears. I am a little lady with little hands, my shears do what I tell them to do. They fit my hand. I like that. Their weight is perfect in my opinion. I do scissor over comb with them, carve hairlines with them, (the rounded edge helps). I do  thinning, chunking, whisping, texturizing, etc. with them comfortably.

My point to this babble is, you'll find what you like, and you'll find what you don't. Enjoy the experience of finding your own comfort level.

I've cut hair with just a razor blade. And was thrilled with the results. If I wasn't afraid of loosing a finger I'd toss my blade handle.

Be creative.



britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:08:18 AM

I use 5 inch shears. I am a little lady with little hands, my shears do what I tell them to do.

Not really, they can't cut a panel of hair wider than about 3 1/2 inches, that's not wide enough to be effective and practical, as heads are wider than that. Also they are pretty ineffective and wrong for a huge thick head of hair, you just can't hack the hair off to sculpt, you must join the dots and be a mechanic.

They fit my hand. I like that. Their weight is perfect in my opinion. I do scissor over comb with them,

I didn't say it can't be done, but that it's made harder by having to cut too many panels and also with short scissors your hand is in the way of the action...

 carve hairlines with them, (the rounded edge helps). I do  thinning,

Again, there are scissors which are created for thinning, they do the job better than a scissor designed for another purpose, and they do it quickly and efficiently.

purpose.chunking, whisping, texturizing, etc. with them comfortably.

Yes, I think that Cosmetologists have convinced themselves that the one tool that they were introduced to in Beauty School is the only tool to use... it wasn't too long ago that you'd be ridiculed for even mentioning using a razor, but now it's trendy. The reason is that the dogma about tools has been so strong in the past, that hairstylists tried to make one scissor do every job, (which was actually pretty inventive of them) rather than being open to using the correct tool for the job. We spent years 'slicing' hair with open scissors before biting the bullet and admitting that the razor was the right tool for that look. Ditto for the 'shattered' ends look...we could have done it so much more quickly and efficiently but we were married to those short scissors.

The excuses I hear and read for not trying something new remind me of the excuses that I heard many years ago from hairstylists who refused to blow-dry hair, or to give up teasing hair, or setting it, it was "It's working for me"...

Think about this too...every stylist in your town is using the same tools as you, and achieving pretty much the same shapes, there's just so many ways to skin a cat...Also, the client's interest is piqued when they see you using a tool that their previous stylist didn't.

Any of you who use the razor will know what I mean...until a few years ago, almost nobody had had a razor-cut for 50 years and the clients were fascinated when you began cutting with it, correct? They asked..."What's that, a blade'?

It set you apart...that's marketing too.




Sophiea
Posts: 136
Bronze Member

Posted: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 8:05:34 AM

I'm on the same page as Brit on this one.  The other thing that's really important to me ...when I'm cutting thick or even long hair...with the bigger blade it seems to take less effort for my hand to close the blades. 

I don't have to work my right hand and arm as hard and with my tendonitis this is imperative.


Cheer's, Sophiea

AMirage
Posts: 402
Silver Member

Posted: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:44:18 PM

Bows down to britboy.... you win.... your the guru.... I feel privileged you waste your time cutting and copying my posts to rip them up.

By the way everyone has an opinion.

Maybe there should be a world of cloned britboys.... everyone will think like you, work like you, and offend like you.

I enjoyed reading the boards, been a member for a while and was afraid to post. I don't come here to deal woth childish people, I come here because I enjoy what I do. I'll bow down, and find somewhere else.

Britboy pleasure to meet you. It will be a pleasure to not deal with you again.

 



misty
Posts: 175
Bronze Member

Posted: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 8:04:36 PM
There goes another one............     That's two today!

vallygrrl
Posts: 1280
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:39:17 PM
Amirage- hey Brit's pretty cool, don't diss him.  If it weren't for him I'd still be taking two hours to do a haircut. :)
 
Hey I heard that at a hairshow once that this one person was using a butcher knife to cut hair.  I also read that you could cut hair with a broken beer bottle, is this true?  Has anyone tried this?  It sounds cool, but gimicky, like you might get the same effect from a razor.


vallygrrl
Posts: 1280
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:54:07 PM
Well the girl that told me about it said that the person was cutting the hair too fast and it flew out of the stylists hand and slashed one other model in the arm!

salondiva
Posts: 430
Silver Member

STATIK
Posted: Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:42:14 AM

I need to email you something and see what you think....how do i do that.....don't want to post on the boards...

diva




Colorz
Posts: 88

Amirage
Posted: Thursday, May 04, 2006 9:11:43 AM

Don't leave!

I wrote a long explanation as to why you shouldn't and just erased it, because it would be better said this way:

DON'T LEAVE BECAUSE I LIKE YOU!!!

If you do leave just change your posting name and come back! Then there will be nothing for anyone to see that could bother you. But hey, I still like the name Amirage. When I read that I thought it was your salon name and it was (and you are) smart and at the top of the directory. If statik doesn't answer I think you can google his name and find his salon which probably has an email address.

Talking about thinning shears, does anyone use anything that looks like these:

They're a razor thinning shear in one I think they are called a fish bone or a razor back. The teeth become the comb guides when they are closed and the blade becomes the razor blade. Cool looking, if anyone has been using them what do you think?