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Author: Thread: Could you share some "texturizing" techniques? i.e. the new "shattered bob"
Anonymous

Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 3:10:00 PM
I am sortof a "precision cutter" because I've been at it for a few years and thats just what I am used to, for example, I can cut a little girls undercut bob very well. But when it comes to very texturized pieced out cuts, I get shear-shy. What tools or techniques do you use when you texturize? Someone told me to do teh "shattered bob" you just cut a regular bob, then take notching scissors and notch horizontally with them, layer by layer, but I haven't dared try it. What do you all think? Thanks so much!!

HairMavenRussell
Posts: 32

Posted: Friday, January 16, 2004 10:59:00 PM
On my website there is a the haircut that you are looking for done with a razor. Just click the "haircut demo" link.

www.hairmaven.com

Russell

Anonymous

Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 3:23:00 PM
STOP Put down those scissors and go to a CLASS. I fix more "new cuts" done with old techniques.

Anonymous

Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 5:18:00 PM
What kind of techniques do you use, Anon? Can you enlighten us?

HairMavenRussell
Posts: 32

Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 7:13:00 PM
It is so easy to sit and criticize someone, especially under an Anonymous, name instead of actually trying to help someone.

It's not funny, it's not helpful, it's just heckling in another form.

Starfire
Posts: 13

Posted: Saturday, January 17, 2004 8:19:00 PM
Texturizing is "in" in a big way, and there are as many methods as there are stylists. Yes, education would be a good idea. I love to razor cut, but there are times I just need my texturizing shears. Point-cutting is also something I like to do, and at the recent KMS show Clive Allwright demonstrating "Back-cutting" which was kind of fun to watch. Watch some of your peers and some good instructors before you go wild with any new techniques though, as these definately are the situations where "accidents" are prone to happen.

NiceAnon
Posts: 277
Bronze Member

Posted: Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:15:00 AM
I love the razor too. It's more my favorite cutting implement than are the scissors.

Anon, I understand your trepidation about making a mistake. But mistakes are learning opportunities and sometimes they are creativity in disguise. Don't be afraid to ask for help on haircuts from others who have more experience in this area. Videos from your local Beauty Supply store will help immensely. Do you have a mannequin? If not, buy one or two and practice. Practice is the best way to learn. You will more than likely do a better job than you thought. Good luck! :)

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:25:00 AM
Actually, textured cutting is becoming tired and if you'll look at the avant-garde fashion mags. you'll see that more bluntish looks are coming in. The razor will still feature as a cutting tool so the cuts won't be blunt, but it's a retro 70's look that's coming in. 'Precision cutting' is really a worn out phrase, every $8.00 salon says it's a precision cut salon, the point being that we are so past precision that it's a joke to even say that's what you do. Precision cutting was something that became popular 40 years ago, it's time to let it go...We have gone through punk, new wave, shattered, textured, notched, tease cut, thinning shear cut,slide cut, point cut, and razor cutting since 'precision cutting' became a bore 20 years ago, in fact it's so out of style, that it's almost back in!!!

Did anyone see Will and Grace last week? The idea was that Grace's no-good sister got a makeover and came home wearing a bob...She looked so out of style that the jokes were about the bob, i.e. "Nobody wears a bob anymore do they?"

Did anyone see 'The L Word' last night? Of course the trampy, loose lesbian who sleeps around downs her espresso in one gulp, drinks like a fish and has crap for brains, works as...what else? A hairstylist...When she tries to say something in a conversation she's asked, "Where did you learn that, in hairstylist school?' And folks here try to suggest that we are somehow 'professionals'?
Everybody knows that our image is strictly trash.
Shame, because some of us work quite hard to uplift it, however with the trade sliding into mediocrity, with the prices for services tumbling and cuts available for the price of a pack of smokes it's hard to see how it can be turned around .

color u 2
Posts: 176
Bronze Member

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 10:36:00 AM
Yes, I agree that there are still some unflattering sterotypes around depicting stylists as "gum-chewing, hair twirling nitwits'", but when someone in the profession stops believing in the future of this being a respected profession, why shouldn't things go downwards from there? We only get the respect we give to ourselves. No one can take it away without our permission.
Britboy: I don't know that our "image is trash", and I never thought that even before getting into it. I'm doing my part to consistently turn out great work, and all the while carrying myself in a professional manner.

Anonymous

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:12:00 PM
Britboy - first of all, I have no interest in learning how to cut any of the "avant guarde" looks you are most likely describing. I live in a fairly conservative area where people are wearing more classic styles, very often modernized by texturizing and/or creative coloring, thus my question on texturing technique advice (none of which your reply even had within itself, by the way....)

There is still very much a place for presicion cutting - not everyone and their mother wants to look like a 3rd grader cut their hair and dyed it hot pink and electric blue, like I am seeing at the hair shows right now. But thanks for your meaningless little rant, even though it really didn't fit here, it still gave me a giggle.

m2
Posts: 1104
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 4:11:00 PM
amen coloru2!
i'm all about that! there's a place and hairdresser for every 'class'.
most of the 'serious' fashion professionals pay big money for education and work VERY hard to be ahead of the trends and provide the best service in all areas of their work environment for themselves and in turn their client. not every person is as dedicated or wishes to be nor wants to work that hard. same can be said in many professions.

HairMavenRussell
Posts: 32

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:09:00 PM
I totally understand where Britboy is coming from.

You work hard for 20 or so years and really put time and effort into being a 'professional', you see how Vidal Sassoon has raised the image of hairdressing, but then you watch some stereotypical television show and the image of hairdressers is that of a party your but off, shallow, not bright, slut. You see many a hairdresser around you not putting forth the effort to be a talented professional but learning just enough to 'get by' and it makes you wonder...

Why even bother...

And don't tell me that the majority of hairdressers aren't the stereotype. Go to any major trade show and take a look around.

But, that's just my opinion.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 6:22:00 PM
Anonymous, I can show you a dozen salons in a 5 mile area that offer 'precision' cutting...for $8.00 a pop. The term is pretty much meaningless these days, particularly in the large urban areas.
It's not surprising that you want to stick to what you know and 'have no interest in learning any avant-garde looks'...You are however trying to learn to update your otherwise obviously tedious repertoire by pleading for help in learning a technique that most big city salons are dropping like a hot roller. You suggest that there is very much still a place for 'precision cutting', but I feel that you are not being realistic, and can't see the wood for the trees. Cuts are not 'modernized' by texturizing, just the opposite actually, they are rendered old-fashioned looking.
One can get a 'precision cut' just about anywhere in the world today, but they want innovation, excitement...
No mention of hot pink or blue in my post, although I can certainly do that for any client that requests it, however I think that you attack me simply as a cover for your own lack of creativity and your willingness to be less than the most up-to-date.
Don't you know that you won't see anything even remotely new at hair shows? The place to look is on the streets at what the counter-culture is feeling and wearing, and at how editorial hairstylists who travel for a living are interpreting those looks. Pink and blue hair was very 'in' 20-25 years ago when punk styles were fashionable, and today's 'fashion coloring 'is post-punk for the young, but 'fully-fashioned' for the more mature. Perhaps a few trips to London, New York, Paris and Berlin might change your mind, or at least expand it?

Anonymous

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:12:00 PM
Oh well - again, you missed my point entirely. I don't work in an ultra-modern salon, and have no need for the garble you pass on. I would go broke trying to sell your idea of fashionable to any of the clientelle that frequent the salon I work in. And thats the honest truth - I am not trying to insult you, but I would NEVER allow you to touch a single hair on my head. You sound like the type of stylist that would talk someone into something that was totally impractical for their personality and lifestyle just so you could show off your wide range of up-to-the-minute techniques, and send the poor thing out crying. "London, New York, Paris, Berlin" sound like a bunch of buzz words you use to try to impress people and squeeeeze more money out of them. Oh well -- and innocent question and innocent post gone bad. Not the first or last time, for sure. Cheers, bitchboy - I mean, britboy. ;)

Anonymous

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:17:00 PM
And another thing... the term "precision cutter" was never meant to get you into such a tizzy. I simply meant blunt, straight cutting with shears, not a whole entire school of thought. You talk about "precision cutting" with such contempt, as if it is a long-forgotten ancient way of doing things that is bad for the client's health - its not like I told you I still use the old electric perming machines! Geez... relax! Why can't you concede to the fact that there are many people in the salon today that just prefer a normal, classic haircut done with predictable, fundamental cutting techniques? Old ladies, moms, little kids, etc????

Starfire
Posts: 13

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 8:01:00 PM
Funny...I was just at a show in Los Angeles...which I would think qualifies as a "big city"...and everyone was...*gasps and looks at Britboy*..texturizing. I would suppose what our clients WANT is a little more important than what is currently "avant garde". We all know that eventually everything old is new again.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:55:00 PM
Los Angeles is not now and never has been an epicenter of fashion. It's not a 'big city' either, it's rather a collection of municipalities strung together calling itself a city. It has no downtown core, shopping streets nor city feeling. Nobody talks about Los Angeles 'style' because there's precious little of it there...

If it were more important to do what the client wanted, then you would all still be doing roller sets and teasing hair a mile high and spraying it stiff with lacquer. Perhaps some of you still are?

The most important innovator in the past 50 years in the hair trade was Vidal Sassoon, who simply refused to do what the clients wanted and decided that even if it meant losing half the clientel (which it did) he would do what he thought was right. He had the foresight and the courage to do what was needed to make a breakthrough which has benefitted all of the people in the trade today, as well as the public...and he didn't do it by kowtowing to the clients ideas of what they should be wearing, but ratherby following his own vision of what was (at the time) avant-garde.

Luis Llonguerras a Spanish hairstylist with 40 plus salons in his chain, posts photos in his staff rooms of styles that he considers to have become too popular, and asks his stylists to stop offering them because once every other salon in town is doing something, his salons aren't competitive any longer. This is a good business strategy, which breeds creativity, not the stultifying boredom associated with 'doing what the client wants'...

The client 'wants' something that is flattering to her face and body type, suits her lifestyle and excites both her and those around her as well as those who meet her, that's what clients 'want'.

I get new clients each week from complacent stylists who bored the client by 'doing what she wanted' rather than finding new and innovative solutions for their clients. The clients often tell me that they really liked the person, but that they just didn't have any new creative ideas for them and just did what they were asked to do.

If we are supposed to be artistic, don't we owe it to ourselves as well as our clients to strive for more than simply 'what the client wants'?
The client doesn't know what's possible, so unless you tell them and suggest new things you'll lose them eventually to someone who's work inspires them.

It's like an artist painting only pictures of kittens because 'that's what people want', rather than stretching their talent and the public's awareness to create new things. Artistic endeavor should not be bridled by what the public wants, or to try to seek popularity... if it were there would be no Picassos nor Twomblys, nor Rauschenbergs, nor Warhols, nor Basquiats, nor indeed Sassoons.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:38:00 AM
Oh, just one more point on this subject...There's only one difference between a rut and a grave...the depth!

Anonymous

Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:11:00 AM
I think you the one missing the forest for the trees at this point, Britboy. All areas have their own set of business demographics, and there is a market out there *somewhere* in the U.S. for every type of talent. Hopefully, you work in an area where there is some desire for your approach to haircare. In my area, it would NEVER float, and you would starve to death. I work with a girl who actually might fit in with your type - she is cocky, overconfident, and is constantly bragging about how SHE knows what is best, and refuses to listen to the client about anything. She is constantly making a fool out of herself. Watch out, britboy - being cocky and overconfident can make you close-minded in a whole 'nother aspect, ya know...

color u 2
Posts: 176
Bronze Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:22:00 AM
I definitely agree with coming up with newer and better ideas for clients. I spent years looking for a stylist that could give me new ideas to work with my fine, limp hair. They would always just give me exactly what I had already. Now that I am in the business, I find myself falling in the trap of giving the client what they asked for, not suggesting something more suitable. Not always, but often. Most stylists are great at the technical aspect of this job, but lack in the creative part (really visualizing the cut and color the client should have, not what they asked for.) Most clients look to us to suggest how they should cut and color their hair, they sometimes just don't have a clue. That's why they come to us! The clients that get their hair cut for 9.99 most likely just want maintenance work, nothing else. But those who pay 40.00 and up deserve and expect something more. We all have our own style and this style is what attracts certain client to our chair. I may not want your client and you may not want mine. That's fine, there are plenty clients to go around. The main idea is to generate ideas and not let the client get bored, because they will leave you no matter how nice you are if they are looking for something more. If you don't suggest it, they will just assume you don't know it. So plant the seeds of change little by little, and something is bound to grow.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:20:00 PM
Anonymous, the idea that every area has it's own set of 'business demographics' is exactly what we used to hear years ago. It was 'the clients like teasing' or, 'the clients don't want blow-dry's, they want roller sets', or, 'That geometric cutting won't sell in my area', or 'Sassoon cuts
might be good for 'London girls'
but my clients ', blah, blah...
The fact is that sooner rather than later your clients will see what's going on and want it and unless you are ready and willing to give it yo them, you'll lose them to someone who will.
Young people used to have to wait months or years to see what people on the coasts or in Europe or Japan were wearing, but today with the web and MTV they see it overnight and want it. I remember 20 years ago visiting the Midwest and being told that Punk styles, (which were already 10 years old) wouldn't ever come there, but is there a town anywhere today where you don't see mohawks, pink hair green hair, extensions, dreadlocks
and all the styles that would supposedly 'never come here'...As I mentioned before, look for blunter cuts to become popular this year, we have seen so much 'texturizing' in the past few years that it's not new any more.The texture shears are not selling well anymore, neither are clippers which tells me that the styles that are done with those tools will be going away soon too. They already have in my salon.

Starfire
Posts: 13

Posted: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:52:00 PM
I get a lot of my clients from people like you, Britboy :) Keep up the good work.

m2
Posts: 1104
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:39:00 AM
where ya been britboy? missing your posts!

Anonymous

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:55:00 AM
Actually, I like to pull in a few layers, then texturize them... like on a simple bob, I put 45degree layers in, then flat iron the hair, pull a one inch section, and texturize... it is much easier to show than it is to tell... but i do like the shattered bob.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:09:00 PM
Starfire...You are welcome to them, I don't need them at all. I'll send you all of my perms too, I don't do them much either...

M2, I've been busy in the salon and other stuff, writing reviews of fashion and such, e.g. Golden Globes...I thought Brittney Murphy looked good, also Kate Blanchett's hair was cool.

Anonymous...I don't offer bobs of any kind. Weren't they popular 35 years ago?

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 5:50:00 PM
hi, aren't blunter cuts...bobs? I do so many bobs & bluntcuts they've almost become what some could call my signature cut.
when I returned to hairdressing 5 years ago, I couldn't do a blunt cut to save my life. of course every one who sat in my chair wanted one, including my mother!
I have become so good at this cut & I'll tell you it has taught my eye so much that I've been able to move my knowledge from this cut into a lot of my other cuts.
closing your eyes to any style of cut or method or technique within this industry is never a good idea. it's great to know trendy but it's also great to know classic. keep a broad spectrum of knowledge- it helps a lot. a good example is in up-do's, would you refuse to do a french twist on someone just because you prefer a more trendy up to the minute do?
if you can seat people of all kinds & styles & ages in your chair the better off your business will be. the broader your range, the more referrals and interest you will garner.
I have no fear of any haircut, I keep up on classes and techniques. (however, I do pray to the colorgods sometimes, I think that may never go away!) :-)

m2
Posts: 1104
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:09:00 PM
i agree Ms. Murphy good-Kate Blanchett's hair was unusual... i did like Ms. Johanssen's pinned up do that was cool even though the troups on E! panned her. also like Kim Cattrall's hair in the back. it was a pretty good evening for fashion with a couple of exceptions of course....
what mags are you writing for Brit? love to read 'em.
say-what is your opinion of Jim Markham & co. since you've been in the biz long enough to have an educated opinion on him? what do you think about his latest venture in PureOlogy?

Starfire
Posts: 13

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 7:33:00 PM
Thanks for the offer, Britboy lol, but I don't do much of the perm thing either. Finally something we agree on ;)

color u 2
Posts: 176
Bronze Member

Posted: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:10:00 PM
I noticed lots of soft curls at the Globe Awards. Charleze Theron's were great, but Nicole Kidman's were not.

Britboy: I'm interested in reading your articles too. Keep me posted on where they'll be.

Anonymous

Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 7:05:00 AM
The "shattered bob" is not new, I took a class in it 2 or 3 years ago! It's basically a regular bob, then you take long shears and cut randomly and DEEPLY into the perimeter all around, going even 3" up into the cut, at a vertical angle. Even when the instructors did it, to me it just looked like someone had taken a weedwacker to the mannequin head. It looked like crap even when done by them.

mc
Posts: 2360
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 9:56:00 AM
You mean something that my 4 year old would do?

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 4:09:00 PM
The reference to 'the Classics' is usually just an excuse for a hairstylist who's lazy. A '56 Buick is a classic, but they aren't making them any more are they? How a person could get a beauty license without being able to do a blunt cut is beyond me. As far as it 'teaching your eye' something, well I cannot imagine what that might be, after all it's just a bowl-cut, and what do you learn from them? I'm not 'closing my eyes' to anything, just the opposite, I'm moving on and leaving the worn-out styles to rot, rather than allowing my career to do so...It's high time that the bob was buried. No, a blunt cut isn't necessarily a bob, it might just as easily be a flip, which I'm doing lots of these days, it's flirty, feminine, and fashionable, and the clients love it. Nothing looks worse on a woman with a big rear-end than a bob turning under, you might just as well put a sign on her butt, but a flip...It's great, it evens out the weight distribution, and doesn't look ridiculous.
As far as being able to 'seat all types of people and make them happy', well I seem to be doing quite well thanks, without the need to resort to outdated styles that have little or no relevance in the 21st Century...It seems to me that if the bob is your 'signature style' then your clientel must be quite old and conservative, because believe me I don't offer them at all and oblige both myself and the clients to try harder to find modern looks. Just because something is 'classic' doesn't mean that it's good, just that it was, once...

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 6:34:00 PM
brit, man! what a self-righteous snob-like ego you have! you attack me, you attack what you think I have for clients all because I have an opinion. (and who the hell signaled you out? I asked a question and my last post was written in generalized text to contribute to the forum, not pick on you. when I write to someone specific, their name is at the beginning- like this one. for the record- I despise name calling & labeling, but I couldn't help myself this time)
I am far from lazy. I have a deep love of all things hair & obviously a wide creative spectrum in which to work from.
I am an accomplished abstract painter as well as a painter of fine detail. knowledge of both works in the art of painting & that knowledge certainly works in the art of hair design.
I firmly believe that you can learn a little something from everything & everyone. but maybe not you, this may not apply to you because you know so much, you put your self into a box. it may be an up to the minute live one- but it's still a box.
your doing the same cuts that I am, who says I don't blow mine out to flip as well? who says I don't texturize and take out weight. what the blunt cut & bob taught me was a great starting line to begin some fantastic haircuts. I have never done a bowl cut or at least they don't look so unsavory to be called a bowl cut!
when I got my license in 1989, we did a lot of perms & a lot of wedge cuts (the pageboy was outdated). in fact theres a bob I do now, people love it! I call it the wedge bob...but to you it's probably just another one of my stodgy haircuts to give to my stagnant clientele.
have a good evening, and don't be so egotistical that you feel I write only to you.

vallygrl
Posts: 534
Silver Member

Posted: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 7:36:00 PM
britboy-whoa buddy, you do sound like a snob, dude. But i suppose i know what your saying. Their are all sorts of things that are classic, that i wouldn't want to wear. The mullett was a classic but i don't really want to give one to my clients. Just remember though that everybody dosen't live where you live. I know i live in a smaller area and a lot of people rock bobs.
Color U 2- i did not get to see a close look at Nicole Kidman and she was the one person i wanted to check out. She is so gorgeous. I'll tell you whos hair i hated, Jennifer Lopez. I don't know why these gorgeous people wear great dresses, than put their hair up in ponytails and horrible bangs. The only people i was impressed with were Sarah Jessica Parker, Diane Keaton, and Jennifer Aniston looked absoloutly adorable.
God bless

Anonymous

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 5:06:00 AM
Britboy, I just have to tell how worthless your advice is 99% of the time, and I can only assume that your work probably is also worthless in 99% of the country. You have given new meaning to the word "closeminded" with your snobby attitude. You could NEVER be an educator because you seem to have no belief whatsoever in the fundamentals of hairstyling. Without a strong knowledge of basic techniques and the 3 basic haircutting forms, you are nothing in this industry. Thats why a lot of the young kids coming up in hairdressing are doing a horrible job. They rush into razoring, point-cutting and other advanced techniques before they even know how to simply cut a graduated haircut with their scissors. The only reason I read your posts is because I enjoy everyone elses rebuttals immensely.

NiceAnon
Posts: 277
Bronze Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 5:24:00 AM
One important factor to keep in mind in any business, especially in the fashion industry, which we are part of, is: History repeats itself.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 9:57:00 AM
Perms and Wedge cuts in 1989? Those were both decidedly 70's styles, so it shows that your beauty school training was already a decade behind the curve.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:14:00 AM
Vallygrl...Don't put the Mullet down honey, it's becoming very popular again. I know that it hasn't gone away in most of the country yet, and that most people on this board will scoff, but they are still doing bobs which were popularised in the 1960's and have zero style left in them today. If you think about the Mullet, some of the sexiest guys of the past 40 years wore them and continue to do so. Some people mistakenly think that a Mullet is cropped on top and waist length in back like some cheesy country singer, but think about Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Ron Wood, Rod Stewart, Paul McCartney who all look great in them as does celebrity hairstylist John Sahag. The Mullet is actually a very sexy look, much more so than a bob. A bob today is a middle-aged woman's idea of 'classic sophistication' which it certainly isn't, it's a worn-out, tired, past it's sell-by-date look. It's favored by the over 40's bank teller and grandma real-estate agent, who want a style that says nothing to offend or surprise, in fact, it's the younger equivalent of the blue-haired ladies (from their mother's generation). The Mullet on the other hand is fresh, new (again)sexy with longer nape slices, can be worn in front or behind the ears, allows a variety of top lengths to suit many face shapes and says 'I'm young, fresh, confident and not my mother, or grandmother!'
It's the easiest thing in the world to pooh-pooh a Mullet because you'll be in the majority, but remember that the majority believed in roller sets and teasing before Sassoon.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 10:33:00 AM
anonymous...I can't tell you how immensely happy it makes me to know that I'm not thinking the same way as you and many of the posters on this board...
I don't know what 'the 3 haircutting forms' are and I'm glad, it sounds like a technique taught in some Midwestern beauty school, a complete bore.

All the rationalizations about what would or wouldn't 'sell in 99% of the country' are similarly dull. Just because you aren't in New York or London doesn't mean that you can't think or create as though you are. Just repeating that it's not possible to be creative in your area tells much about your creative attitudes. Aren't there fashion-forward young people where you live? Is it not possible to work on 'models' at night to at least create these modern styles as a showcase for your talent? How do you expect to become inspired, by simply repeating the same 'classic bob' for the forseeable future?

Additionally, suggestions that an 'ego' is something bad and shameful is more small-minded bunk...I'm also a singer and unless my ego was intact and strong I'd be crushed by every audition that I don't get the part for...how do you suppose actors and singers etc. survive the humiliation of being told 'no you aren't worthy', and survive? Most hairstylists don't hear that, the client just never returns.

mc
Posts: 2360
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:38:00 AM
3 haircutting forms???

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 3:09:00 PM
britboy, you accuse me for my beauty school training?? weird. like I had any say in the curriculum.
one question to you: are you going to perm your mullets?
I did a lot of mullets in '89 as well. it's the easiest hair cut I've ever done.
I'm also reasonably sure that big permed hair was the rage in 1989. as for the wedge, I've always had clients who want that.
in the late 80's & early 90's little boys got the mushroom- which is a form of wedge cut to me.
you can pretty much rely on every other decade for things to return. (some with a new name and all with a more "modern" approach)
like in the 70's it was the fifties, in the 80's the 60's (big hair & peddle pushers & mini skirts) in the 90's the 70's- natural, long & straight, baseball shirts etc.etc.etc. the 80's should be coming back now, so we should see an increase of perms (dig out those spiral rods!)& mullets and space-like do's, makeup & clothes. pink eyeshadow.......
polished cotton mini skirts......
cute little lacy white socks & pumps....
converse sneakers & rolled up pants (I shudder at that one) maybe it won't be that extreme- but we really covered the 70's well in this round so who knows how far the 80's re-cap will go when it gets into full gear. (remember the shoulder pads? how about linda evans bob that everyone wanted with the wingy bangs! what if they ask for that brit??)
as for ego, I never put down the ego. I made an observation that your ego appeared to be self-righteous & snob-like.
you can better believe that I have an ego as well.
oh yeah I also graduated from fashion design in 1987 & that dress that jennifer annison wore to her premiere last week looks an awful lot like a dress that I made in 1985. only mine wasn't black- get this it was a silky polyester blend in mouse grey with tiny white polka dots with silky pink polyester collar and belt. how 80's is that! I wore shiny patent pink 4" pumps with it....yikes!

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:00:00 PM
mc ...see Anon 1/29/04 for reference to '3 forms'...

HairMaven
Posts: 885
Gold Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:12:00 PM
3 forms of haircutting....

Blunt, graduated, and layered.

Russell

vallygrl
Posts: 534
Silver Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:15:00 PM
britboy-if i'm not mistaken(i'm sure everyone will tell me if i am) the three haircutting forms are the zero(bob) the forty-five(yet another bob) and the 180(the gypsy farrah fawcett thing) those were the three cuts that i learned in school.
"Don't put the mullett down honey"
Lol i laughed when i read your post. I do have to say though that you make some good points. You should read Ruth Roche's article on here she talks about the merits of the mullett, and how horror of horrors she is actually considering getting one. The idea of Ruth Roche getting a mullett,leaves me very unsettled.lol. If she couldn't still convince me that mullets are cool, then you probaly can't but your the most convincing person so far. You have to understand where i live the mullett never went out of style yet. But it's not the eighties punk mullett, it's the Billy Ray Cyrus a racoon just died on my head mullett. In school i cut these guys hair that came in with baseball caps, big belt buckles, tight jeans, and you cant forget the snakeskin cowboy boots. So you see the mullett has been emblazoned in my mind as that, just as whenever you think of the bob, Annie Humphreys comes to mind.lol. I actually would use your argument about the bob. Yes it does convey images of suburban housewifes who don't want anything too exciting, i think that i do some version of a bob quite a bit. Hillary Clinton looked quite nice in a bob. I would even say that Meg Ryans cut reminds me of a touseled bob. It depends on how fluid your description of a bob would be. I'm hoping you argue with me. I find this converstation facinating.
alesia-that is classic eighties. I don't have any stories that good, but when i was ten or eleven i used to dress kind of strange. I remember the one thing i always did was i wore a torn sweatsock on one of my arms. I thought it looked kind of cool. I was shocked seven years later, when brittney spears wore the same look at the superbowl, and now urban outfitters is selling it. I'm like hello, i wore this in the early nineties. I guess it depends on who you are.
God bless

JD
Posts: 1350
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:44:00 PM
LOL ..Both of my boys wore mullets when they were toddlers.LOL...;) That's when I HAD the say in that department.

sizz
Posts: 344
Silver Member

Posted: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:15:00 AM
Britboy, so what your saying is it's OK for middleaged men to wear a hairstyle that's been around for 40 yrs,(mullet) but not for middleaged women to wear a style that's been around for 40 yrs (bob). That's quite the double standard there my friend.

Anonymous

Posted: Friday, January 30, 2004 4:59:00 AM
I just posted a message about mullets on the cut and style board. If someone cares to enlighten me, please do so. All this talk about mullets has caused me to inquire more deeply about them. Thanks!

NiceAnon
Posts: 277
Bronze Member

Posted: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:10:00 AM
This is just my own opinion, and I'm not suggesting anyone has to agree with it or like it, but I never did like the mullet haircut. It looks like two haircuts on one head. I've yet to see anyone successfully pull it off. The closest I've ever seen is Roy Dupuis. (Canadian actor). No matter whether it's in style or not, we all have personal tastes and preferences. I'll give people that haircut if that's what they really want, but I've never liked it.

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, January 30, 2004 9:42:00 AM
at the risk of offending anybody, and I apologize in advance;
there are two hairstyles I think I really despise.
I'm pretty creative and open to just about everything other than:
1.) the mandatory same toupee that anchormen & newsmen seem to have to wear. you know the ones, parted on the side and one dimensional safe & bland color. (I actually count how many times their eyebrows dissapear into the hair during the broadcast. it's extremely distracting.)
2.)the bald guy with the ponytail look. it just never did for me.
oops make it three- donald trump's comb over kind of bothers me too.

JD
Posts: 1350
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:08:00 PM
AGH!!! donald trumps comb over is hideous!

vallygrl
Posts: 534
Silver Member

Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2004 5:39:00 AM
alesia-no offense at all but that could be because i agree with you. I really do hate that. It seems too that everyone in newscasting does that even if their incredibly young. I'm not asking for a mohawk or anything but if they added a touch of crazy highlights, or maybe a more interesting color they would look great. I would say though that that is britboys problem with bobs, they do put me in mind of newscaster hair.
The bald guy with the ponytail is like the women who dresses ultra conservativly but still wears the sexy stilettos, it's their last hint of rebellion. If they shave the ponytail, and they know they should they have entered the middle aged suburban world. Just a thought.
Niceanon-i agree i have never seen it done nice, it dosen't really blend well, and i just don't like it. It looked okay on David Bowie, and on some women when they wore it really punked out, piecy bangs, and lots of eyeliner, it was pulled off okay(till you realized it was infact a mullett.)
God bless

statikman
Posts: 617
Silver Member

Posted: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:20:00 PM
I have a british mullet on one side and a flicky shag on the other. I always cut it myself, except for a faux hawk with Vanilla Ice speed lines I had a couple of years ago, just like the guy with nunchakas in Ghost World. I've had a variation on a mullet for 5 years and I always look badass.

Anonymous

Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:25:00 AM
Not everyone can cut precision. I think everyone should know the basics first. You have to know the rules before you can break them. A classic chin length bob with deminsional color looks awesome. Is it because it shows mistakes easily that some people avoid them? I have a client that wears the gypsy shag and I get tons of clients from her. They say their hairdresser does not know how to cut it. I do classic cut then texturize. Do what works for you and your clientel and I will do what feels good to me.

Anonymous

Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:28:00 AM
Russell, I tried to get to your website and my searc engine could not find it. I appreciate how you share with us instead of putting us down.

TWStylist
Posts: 17

Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2004 6:32:00 AM
Anonymous - how do you cut your gypsy shag, just out of curiosity?

NiceAnon
Posts: 277
Bronze Member

Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:27:00 PM
LOL Statikman!! :)

HairMaven
Posts: 885
Gold Member

Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2004 9:50:00 PM
My website is

www.hairmaven.com

A gypsy shag is a very layered haircut with out a perimeter line cut into it. For example, if you did a true 90 degree haircut without cutting a perimeter line into it you would have a version of a shag. A gypsy shag is where the crown is short and the perimeter is very long.

Russell

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:59:00 PM
Sizz, if you have only just realized that there's a double standard between what men can do and what women can do then there's something radically wrong ...Of course a man can wear a look that's 'old-fashoined, (think of JP DeJoria for one) because men's styles don't change anywhere as quickly as women's. How often do you change styles on your male clients? Not often I'm sure (although I know someone here will argue otherwise)?

The fact is that men just want to find someone who can give them the same thing each and every time, that's what they're secure with, whereas women tend to be constantly on the look-out for the new thing...

Face it hon, it's still a man's world...
Bring back the Mullet!

statikman
Posts: 617
Silver Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:41:00 AM
Nice save, though it's a bit of a stretch. Could it be that mullets are just more fun to cut than bobs?
8 years ago I was doing a pro hockey player's hair. Afterwards my boss came over to me and said "If you ever do hockey-hair again (what we called mullets back then) you are out of here. We don't do suburban hair in this company." I explained to her that, while it looked a bit Billy Ray, he DID play defense for the Rangers and if anyone could get away with hockey-hair, it should at least be a player. She backed down quickly.

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 7:42:00 AM
Brit-boy,
I think that age & lifestyle should be the main factors here and not gender.
I think most people after age 30 are looking for an attractive, dependable and easy to take care of hairstyle no matter where they live.
I find several problems with your arguments here because I feel that you have nothing concrete in which to back them up with.
I read a lot of opinions that you have, some of them harsh with no regard to facts. your posts employ what I perceive to be condescending comments written with smug undertones and double standards.
you dislike the bob for allowing security for women but in the same breath you feel that a style that allows security for men is o.k.
I've not read anything you've written that is a viable argument for this. it's all opinion based on unfounded fact.
meanwhile you are trashing the middle of the country because you seem to have an opinion that there is something wrong with their schools, techniques & hairstyle choices.
you wrote:
"I don't know what the '3 haircutting forms' are, and I'm glad. sounds like a technique taught in some midwestern beauty school, a complete bore."
your words on bobs were:
"a bob today is a middle aged woman's idea of 'classic sophisication' which it certainly isn't.it's a worn-out past it's sell by date look."
and the you wrote:
"the mullet on the other hand is fresh, new (again)sexy with longer nape slices, can be worn in front or behind the ears allows a variety of top lengths to suit many face shapes and says 'I'm young, fresh, confident and not my mother or grandmother."
your kidding- right?
nothing screams fear of age more than a 60-something in a mullet. whereas I find that the bob really is sophisication on a well adjusted woman. regardless of age.
bob's can be very sexy as well. no-one can say that the bob on michelle pfeiffer in scarface was NOT sexy.
this forum would not be beneficial to anyone if everybody yessed each other to death. the way to learn is to question & challenge. be happy that your posts inspire feedback regardless of how you feel about what they are saying.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 1:26:00 PM
Alesia, I beg to differ...

A 'well-adjusted woman'???
What does that mean? I'm sure that if a man had said that, they would be shot down for being patronizing...

Michelle Pfeiffer was not middle-aged in 1983 when Scarface was filmed, in fact she was in her 20's and one of the most beautiful women in Hollywood. Just because she looked good in a style 21 years ago doesn't mean anything at all. A beautiful woman will look good in just about anything, but we are talking about Mrs. Jones here, your average customer, and my belief is that you'll make them look like a tired wreck by continuing to put a worn-out style on them just because you justify it by calling it 'classic'. Those middle-aged women don't want to be 'classics' they want to be hot babes, just like younger women.
As to 'the middle of the country' well, do we look there for fashion inspiration? I know that I don't...Sorry if you are there and upset that nobody's taking any notice of you, but really, we all know that it's just not happening there, so don't be so defensive, if you want a more exciting clientel and career, go to the coasts.

It's not my fault that society treats the genders differently, but it does. What's good for males is not for females and that's just the way it is.
You yourself are actually perpetuating this by going along with the notion that 'classic' looks are somehow useful, whereas I am trying to allow myself to see women of a certain age as still sexy, desirable and fun, not putting them in a box as 'classic', to my mind, a cop-out...

Age and lifestyle are of course a factor, I'm not in disagreement, but be realistic for a moment, don't you smirk when you see a 60 year old woman 'walking-out' with a 25 year old man? Of course you do. But a 60 year old man with a 25 year old woman, no... It's the way of the world...
We are different creatures, perhaps you are a young person? I believe that as you mature you'll see things as they are, not as we'd like them to be?
You lump 'people over the age of 30' all together as if they were cattle and not individuals, perhaps you are under 30 yourself?

You are right...I have nothing, no 'facts'(I don't know what 'unfounded facts' might be) to back up what I say here... just 40 years in the hair trade, so take it for what it is...just an informed opinion.
Just because a bob looked sexy on Michelle Pfeiffer many years ago doesn't mean that every woman will look sexy in it today, it's like telling a woman that because she looked good in a bob 40 years ago that she'll look good in it today...Is that true of flared pants or halter tops too?
Not everything blue is a mailbox...

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 1:33:00 PM
Statikman...Can there be any style that's less fun to cut than a Bob? I mean come on, isn't it the cut that we have all done the most of? How long can you be inspired with that design? 10 years, 20?
Well after 30 years of them I decided to give it up, I'd squeezed every bit of creativity out of it and used it up. it's the first cut that we learn, a blunt line that some posters here believe is essential to know, but the problem has been that they got stuck on it and justify it by calling it 'classic'...I have clients referred to me because they have heard that I will not just give them the same old-lady bob that everyone else will.

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 5:13:00 PM
britboy, I think the term "well adjusted woman" coming out of anyone's mouth is far better than the big bottom balony you were spewing a few days ago.
well adjusted means at ease with herself & her life. you know squat about women and it shows. you call middle aged women wrecks?
they have careers, lives, children, successes.
most of the women I've seen know what they want & they celebrate themselves and their personal style.
if a woman wants a bob, so what? if it looks good and empowers their self-esteem, by all means they are going to get the best bob I can give.
believe me, if it won't work for them I let them know. but the way I let them know is with dignity & grace. total respect for their person.
who says they're not hot babes? you? so what. who says they even want to be hot babes? you? how would you know? I thought all of your clients were edgy trendsetting younger folks! also why do you keep thinking I'm from the midwest? I've never said where I am, it's just another unfounded opinion of yours.
I used over 30 as a cutting point because that's when I started getting serious and got married. maybe I'm off by a few years but I don't think so for my area.
I don't agree with your argument against classic- your accusing me of doing what your actually doing. you won't allow them a choice of a "classic" (I guess that the term I'm branded with now.)haircut. with me they don't have to get an ultra-trendy do everytime they sit in my chair because I say they have to. but if they wanted one, they'll get it. my creativity is broad enough that no matter what they want they get it. I'm not in a box.
I used michelle pfieffer in scarface because that was great hair. still after all this time, I think that's great hair (who cares if she was 20 or 90.)
may-december couples mean nothing to me as I've been there myself. not in that extreme but noticable enough.
why would a woman lose her sexy self just because she has had some birthdays?
just because something is not your fault is by no means a viable excuse for ignorance.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:50:00 PM
Alisa, I don't really need to go any further in regard to what I know about women, than to repeat that I've been doing their hair and talking with them every working day since the 1960's, so I'll leave it to others to judge just how much I might know about them.
I'm willing to bet that I was doing this job since before you were born, so I really don't think there's any need for me to defend my knowledge of the female form, nor mind.

Again I'll remind you that before Sassoon revolutionized this trade for you, 'classic' meant teasing and sprayed sets each week. There were those that harped on, as you are now, about how 'the classics' would never go out of style and that this 'geometric' cutting and blow-drying wouldn't last.

They were wrong, those 'classics' have become a joke, and so will the Bob because it represents a place in time that has passed. Of course some folks are still setting hair and even teasing and spraying it too, but their days are numbered in the trade as their clients die off, those 'blue-haired ladies' won't be here much longer, and nor will the Sassoon era 'soccer-mom's and now grandmom's'. You won't be able to make much of a living offering bobs in 10 years from now, nobody wants to look like their mother...

HairMaven
Posts: 885
Gold Member

Posted: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:09:00 PM
Britboy,

I have to say that is the best argument that I've heard about leaving the "classic's" behind and moving forward with style.

You really made me think.

Russell

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:15:00 PM
Thanks Russell, while I may seem abrasive, my arguments are well-reasoned and not just thrown out without much consideration.

The cut is becoming less important as Baby- Boomers move into middle-age, they want to look younger and more vital and color will do that better than any cut. The cut has been so cheapened ($4.99 in some salons, less than 20 years ago), that nobody has respect for it any longer, and why would they?

It's time that the Sassoon 'cut is the most important thing' mantra is brushed aside, it's what is holding the trade and modern style back...

It's been over 40 years since Sassoon created the 'new' direction in hair, and that's long enough. We desperately need a new breakthrough and direction...

I've reinvented my business as a color specialist and downplay cutting
Color revenue has been growing for the past decade, while cutting revenue has been flat.

I know many people earn the bulk of their living doing cuts and they won't be happy with my prediction, but I believe that COLOR is the cut of the 21st Century...

So long Vidal...Thanks for the memories.

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 2:32:00 PM
brit, I agree with the last two posts you wrote.
I also believe that color is it & the more you know & learn the better off you will be.

formal hair design is my specialty but most of my clients are color & cuts. (let's not talk about what kind of cuts.....o.k?)
what are the most crucial things you know as a color specialist?

to everyone who reads this, I would also like your input on this as well.
I'm learning a lot. thanks.

Alice
Posts: 95

Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 3:31:00 PM
Not to change the subject in mid stream but some statistics that came forth at one of our satellite broadcast stated that only 11% of our total revenue in the industry is in perms. I do my share of coloring and hilighting, but I wonder why the perming has slacked off. This used to be 75%of my business. Texture and support are not utilized to the fullest anymore. I know Perms have gotten a bad wrap in years past but they were a major money maker at one time. Now I'm reading more and more that big hair is on the upswing. Just a stray thought.

Anonymous

Posted: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 5:29:00 PM
Britboy - why do you reference Sassoon so much? Just curious??

Also, my opinion of perms - I think there is still a place for them in the salon. There are many creative ways perms can be used to rough up the texture of the hair, provide lift at the root, or curl/wave at the shaft. There are new wrapping techniqes available, tought by Matrix that look interesting also.

Britboy - what is your opinion of where perms belong in the salon? Curious....

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:46:00 AM
Sassoon is still the 'touchstone' to the hairstyling world, and everything in modern hairdressing stems from his 1960's revolutionary concepts. Thje scissor cut, the blow-dry, the geometry, the weight-line, the natural-look, the shiny-swinging hair, all the things which modern hairstylists take for granted were his inspirations, and everybody since has just been following. The fervent defense of the Bob which has consumed many posts here is proof enough that his ideas are very firmly entrenched in the psyche of many hairdressers, and the refusal of his creative team to even mention the razor is indication that the company, as well as many in the trade, are moribund.
His name is still the most famous in the hair world, despite the fact that there hasn't been anything even vaguely interesting come out of there in decades. It's the standard by which everything else is judged.

As to perms...

It's true that perming is only about 10% of the salon income today, straight hair is hot, thermal straightening was the fastest-growing service in the past year, mainly because cultural icons i.e. Jennifer Aniston, Meg, Cameron, Brittney, Christina, Paris, and many others prefer straight hair, and the public follow. It's difficult to see curly hair making a comeback until someone new inspires the public with a new look. Perming is a bore actually, like extensions they are done by rote, (new wrapping techniques notwithstanding)and the results are often dissapointing. It's either too curly or not curly enough, not strong enough on the crown section or frizzy on the ends. Every hairstylist has heard a million times from clients who 'came out looking like a poodle' or worked hard at giving 'body-waves' only to have the client return the following week for a re-do because 'the curl all fell out',. All in all it's a big hassle. Besides, in the 1970's we stopped dressing hair following a perm and allowed the curl to be the style, often drying the hair with heat lamps (the biggest waste of time in the world) resulting in the ugly and cheap looking 'fried-hair' era...
Before then perms were always finished with a roller set, so that the perm was the FOUNDATION for the style, not the style itself.
I believe that there is a place for the perm, but it needs to be either a loose loopy look or used as before as a foundation for a finished style. I don't think that we'll see many perm-do's for the forseeable future, most clients want a more sophisticated style, and for now, that means sleeker hair.
Isn't it amazing that we put a man on the moon 35 years ago, but a perm still stinks the whole salon up? What's up with that?

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:08:00 AM
perms drive me crazy because of all of the above plus I make less per minute on a perm yet there is so much more work to it.
is this the same pricewise in other salons?

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:47:00 AM
in this week's scandal rags everyone pictured wearing straight hair last week has hair that looks stringy to me.

please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't softer romantic looks becoming into play now? stuff like, ruffles & lace?
remember jessica mclintock dresses in the lates 70's mid 80's?
soft wavy hair in romantic reds or hair with golden highlights? the goal being almost angelic looking hair?
does anyone remember that girl on "head of the class" t.v. show with the long red soft curly romantic hair? that's what I see.
am I late, early or way off on this one?

m2
Posts: 1104
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:14:00 AM
i add those textures to the hair with hot tools and stylers-or the modern sets. i - like Britboy- don't offer perm services but do have someone to refer clients to that 'just HAVE to have them'. usually the client that grew up with that style in the 50's/60's.
Brit-still waiting to learn which publications you're writing for-would love to have them.

in a lather
Posts: 1

Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:21:00 AM
I LOVE YOU BRITBOY this has been a great thread. I am in the same place as you. I own a top rated salon in a large east coast city. Keeping on top of the trends, translating the runway, and Hollywood fashions into what we do in the salon is key. We are a society that has a fascination with all things fashion and style. Not just the makeover shows, but whole TV networks devoted to fashion. Yet most of the U.S. population is wearing jeans and sports logo clothing. Hair is just another part of it. If people are happy with getting their precision hair cut or unfortunately a mullet,then so be it. Do I believe that we should continue learning and growing ? YES.!!!The bottom line is that we are all making money and enjoing what we do.

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:48:00 AM
in a lather, I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm on cape cod & it is considered a retirement & resort area.
(people always seem surprised that I was born & raised here.)
even though some of the richest people in the world own homes here the general look is pretty conservative.
that's what I have to bank on.
for my creativity my target clientele are teens and brides.
for the bottom line each month, my target clientele are middle age color & cuts.
highlights & lowlights are an easy sell for both.

sizz
Posts: 344
Silver Member

Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 4:16:00 PM
By sizz on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 07:14 pm:
LOL,
Oh dear britboy, aren't you the one who's alway's saying it's not fair for men to pay less for haircuts than women? Don't you also say up your men and make them pay or lower your women and get them to the same price??????????
So let the poor overcharged women have their "outdated" bob an dlet them wear it with dignity!

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2004 7:07:00 PM
I never said that they couldn't...
I just said that I wouldnt!

It's no fun being a ***** for money, doing things you don't want to...
I can do well without the need to do that.

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:29:00 AM
oh please.
brit-boy, can you get any more unrealistically condescending?
life throws all kinds of "have-to's" to everyone.

you are not immune, because after 40 years your still a slave to this business.
as crass as it may seem, we are all whoring for money. i.e we all have to put up with something we're not gung ho on to earn a living.
we all need money for whatever reasons and we have to do what it takes to get it. period.

some of us have more fun than others, but even in this business you have to put up with a lot of baloney before you reach your goals.
demanding selfish owners, flaky clients, weird co-workers just to pay the bills and to achieve financial freedoms.
even after your goals are met you have to deal with selfish employees, flaky clients, and more/bigger bills.

I love what I do & I feel that I have a lot of freedom to pursue all of my talents outside hair as well. I am one of the lucky ones because I earned my stripes to be here.
you should be proud to say you did too.

it's far more inspiring to all of the talent just starting out. no-one gets out of school and goes into a whirlwind glamorous star hairdressing career.
they need to know that there is nothing wrong with them because they are going through some crackpot aspects of their careers. we bust our butts and earn every good word spoken about our work.

after 40 years, that puts you at least in your mid fifties. you have more to offer us here than condescending prima donna overtones.
you give good advice when you keep your prima attitude out of it.

saying you wouldn't is just not realistic.
and that you can do well without the need to do that- well, how? what led you to there and offer your knowledge and expertise on how to get there to the rest of us.

everyone is entitled to their opinions, including you. but I just read so much snerkiness into your posts. that I have to bite.

I really feel that you could enlighten and inspire real hairdressers & you choose not to.
what a shame.

I read here that you write for publications, are you bound by some kind of a contract where you can't give out advice etc. on a public forum such as this?
don't you know you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

to everyone who reads the posts I've written through this thread:

at the risk of looking like a britboy attacker I had to write them. I'm not attacking britboy, I feel he has to be a master of knowledge. and albeit direct at him through what I feel is fault with his posts, I'm picking his brain.
you can learn something from everything and everyone. I believe this.
Alesia

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:09:00 PM
Alesie, firstly, I'm not trying to catch any flies...
Second, I'm the owner, so I don't have a selfish one above me...
Third...I work alone, so no wierd co-workers...
Fourth...I don't allow any flaky clients, reps, salespeople or anyone else that I don't like and want, into the salon, if anyone disturbs my tranquility they are gone.
Fifth...A prima Donna is a female, perhaps you might check out your genders before using foreign terms?

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 12:21:00 AM
britboy,
you act like a selfish prima donna, and not surprisingly the whole gist of my post has flown over your fluffy head once again.

you do not sound as smart as you think when you attack my choice of words.
you knew exactly what I meant by prima donna. if you don't want to be labled, then contribute your knowledge respectfully to the forum.

the most amazing thing is that you are not boxed into this unrealistic and condescending view by inexperience due to young age.
when I first started questioning your posts I could have sworn that I was dealing with some one a lot younger than myself.

it turns out that you are older than me by about 20 years and have put yourself into this in frame of mind.
perhaps we have a fear of being a washed up over his prime hairdresser?
who can only boost ego by putting down the people who post here?

you must be a terror to work for.

Alice
Posts: 95

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:40:00 AM
It's fine to specialize. But I don't have the type of clientele that I can afford to do this with. Also don't live in area that is trendy. I'm in middle class area in the corn belt. I have had to keep a good mix of services to stay busy. Perm technology has come a long way baby and I have created some very lovely styles with perming as well as color.I was just a bit surprised to see the statistics, and I have seen the effect in my own salon. I just feel that perming still has a place in the beauty field and I would like to build on the fact that all things come back in fashion. 10% of all clients are permed but that's 90% That are possible clients for the service. There are also good perms on the market that are non ammonia and don't have to smell up the salon. I would rather have acrylic nails out of my salon. We had a nail technician drop and break a whole bottle of acrylic the other day and one client had an asthma attack and I almost passed out from the fumes. That is very frightening!

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 11:36:00 AM
Alice...If 'perm technology has come a long way' as you suggest, then can you tell me why hairstylists still hear the same complaints from the patrons regarding them?
e.g. The crown falls out too fast...just for one?
Also, how come they still stink up the salon? I mean, we put a man on the moon over 30 years ago, wouldn't you think that the 'technology' could make perms smell better, or not at all by now?
Personally, I don't believe that the 'technology' of perms has changed, nor improved one bit, for decades.

britboy
Posts: 2083
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 11:46:00 AM
Alesia, you accuse me of being selfish, but didn't I recently address a question you posted here in detail? As I remember I took my time and tried to help you out, all for free and in the spirit of professional respect...You thanked me at the time and didn't seem to think that my advice was in the least bit 'fluffy' then...As far as 'contributing professionally to the forum', I believe that I certainly did so and for your personal benefit...
You suggest that my view is 'unrealistic' however I look at the replies posted and find that the majority of responses seem to be in distinct agreement with many of my thoughts...particularly those from more experienced professionals (who continue to e-mail me personally with words of encouragement)...
As far as 'being a terror to work for', I imagine that you might experience difficulty in my employ, but then again I expect high standards and perhaps you would not be up to the task?

Alice
Posts: 95

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:36:00 PM
Britboy, I did not mean to provoke you. I'm saying I cannot afford to give up perming as part of my offering and they do have there place. There are a couple brands of perm that have no ammonia and do not give off a strong odor. One line is made by Farouk. Softer perms are the way I go on most of my clients and not the curly top of the past. Also Synerfusion and Gentle Motion by Matrix are good choices. I still do perms so I do try to be more enviromentally friendly with the brands I choose. As a matter of fact I use Sunglitz from Farouk because it also is non ammonia lift and no fumes.I have come up with my own methods to process perms as well that improve the curl formation and keep the curl from dropping out. Also if the client doesn't use the correct products the perm will go limp from the weight of the wrong shampoo and conditioner for permed hair as well as hair type.I would never force my ideas on you or anyone else.Best regards,Alice

alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 3:23:00 PM
ouch.
Brit-
of course I'm up to the task. I expect the absolute highest standard of myself. I feel that you also must have incredible discipline.
I know that you don't survive 40 years in hairdressing without talent, passion and taking care of your self.

let's face it- most hairdressers burn out at the 25 year mark. either from back pain or because they feel they've gotten as far as they can go.
they burn-out.

I was upset because it seemed that you only took my criticism and not my praise of your expertise.
my remark about fear of being a washed up hairdresser has no bearing whatsoever as I do not know you in person. I'm big enough to admit a mistake, you'll rip me apart for this sentence, but whatever.

If you remember I was very pleased with your help and you'll be proud in that I've started bringing out the razor a bit more.
I'm still just texturizing a bit & removing weight but I am getting accustomed to the feel of it. I take carving comb out of my drawer with my shears so I see it. one of these days I will do a full haircut with it. and it is because you took the time to help me. you know that I'm grateful for that- as I thanked you.

but there are other times when you just word things that seems to be an attempt on your part to make people feel stupid or bad about themselves. you can be pretty vicious and unbelievably petty.

but look, I'm putting all of this aside. I'm not interested in this wit match anymore. I conveyed my message to you of the view I see of your posts to no avail.
I tried to be pleasant only to be picked apart for a haircut I excel at (and it is one of the hardest haircuts to master.)and picked on for an area in which I do not live. (I am on the east coast- cape cod to be exact.)
I cannot waste my time anymore. I'm here to learn and help others learn.

it's your choice to be condescending sometimes and one of the most informative posters at other times. no sweat off my back.

Xspotdude
Posts: 2

Texture
Posted: Sunday, November 14, 2004 5:43:39 AM

Hi everyone...I am a designer and a ass t. to a Aveda haircutting educator ,here in Knoxville Tn...My educator always show us great techniques on texture with shears and your blending shears and razor.What I have learn is to practice and go to your local supply and get a mannguin and practiced u will learn texture is so much fun and create such awesome styles....Have an Aveda day!

Peace.




alesia
Posts: 1920
Platinum Member

I had forgotten about this thread
Posted: Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:27:30 AM

It certainly was  lively.



coloru2
Posts: 504
Silver Member

xspotdude
Posted: Sunday, November 14, 2004 3:50:55 PM
Can you share some of the technique specifics that Aveda has taught you? Thanks